วันอาทิตย์ที่ 31 ตุลาคม พ.ศ. 2553

Re: [sage-devel] Re: All of sage as a python library

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:02 PM, Dima Pasechnik <dimpase@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Oct 28, 4:23 am, "Georg S. Weber" <georgswe...@googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>> >   (1) Have a Python library called "sagecore", which is just the most
>> > important standard spkg's (e.g., Singular, PARI, etc.), perhaps
>> > eventually built *only* as shared object libraries (no standalone
> [...]
>>
>> I just can't believe David Cournapeau would go this way, if "python
>> setup.py install" could do "anything", or if Python resp. its ecosysem
>> (PyPI, ...) already had reasonably good support for the needs of the
>> NumPy project.
>>
>
> the point that David Cournapeau makes is about distutils/setuputils
> getting
> too messy, too procedural, as opposed to declarative. His point about
> the need
> of a better packaging system is not about the lack of power in the
> present system,
> it's about lack of structure and abundance of general mess...

This post is about:

(1) Concern about distutils/setuptools/etc., is misplaced.
(2) Python3 and librarifying Sage.


First, all this discussion about distutils/setuptools/david
cournapeau, etc., is actually mostly IRRELEVANT to making the core
Sage library into a standalone library. The way it would work is
this:

1. You type "python setup.py develop" (or possibly "python setup.py install").

2. A function in setup.py builds all the non-standard C/C++ libraries
that the core Sage library depends on, which is the following 24
libraries:

boost-cropped givaro libm4ri mpir ratpoints
cliquer gsl libpng ntl
eclib iml linbox pari singular
ecm lcalc mpfi polybori symmetrica
flint libfplll mpfr pynac zn_poly

This function in setup.py is a Python function, and it can do
*anything* it wants. distutils/setuptools/etc. are irrelevant!! In
fact, this can just be a very simple version of the current Sage build
system, and we can just include the 24 Sage packages corresponding the
above-listed 24 libraries basically as is. Just for fun, I tried
this and wrote a sample setup.py sort of illustrating what I mean (and
ran it, and it works, but you can't, since of course it needs the
source files. I'll post more later.). When I did this, by the way,
and deleted the .a files, leaving just the shared libraries, it only
took about 25MB compressed -- pretty interesting.

3. After the C/C++ libraries have all been built, then the regular
Sage library gets built, using some slight variation of the current
build scripts.

---

Anyway, since this thread sort of ended with some major misconceptions
that the setuptools weirdness was a serious issue, I wanted to correct
this misconception.

Another point I think is interesting is that the Sage library itself
seriously depends on the above 24 C/C++ libraries, which have little
or nothing to do with Python2 versus Python3, plus a very small number
of Python libraries: numpy, matplotlib, networkx. Sage uses scipy,
cvxopt, etc., a tiny, tiny bit, but nothing serious. Even matplotlib
is *only* used to draw pictures. Thus if we wanted a Python3 version
of the Sage library itself, if we had a library like I describe above,
this would only require a Python3 version of numpy and networkx, plus
the work of porting the Sage library itself. This doesn't sound so
far off, since there already is a Python3 version of numpy.

-- William

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Re: [sage-devel] What is sagemath.com?

Fixed. This was left over from migrating away from a virtual machine...

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 7:24 PM, Andrey Novoseltsev <novoselt@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> From time to time I make a mistake and go to sagemath.com instead of
> sagemath.org. What exactly is the first of these sites? It seems to be
> like an old copy of the second one, is there any reason for this?
>
> Thank you,
> Andrey
>
> --
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> URL: http://www.sagemath.org
>

--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Blog Post: "How to referee Sage Trac tickets"

http://sagemath.blogspot.com/2010/10/how-to-referee-sage-trac-tickets.html

--
William Stein
Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] What is sagemath.com?

Hello,

From time to time I make a mistake and go to sagemath.com instead of
sagemath.org. What exactly is the first of these sites? It seems to be
like an old copy of the second one, is there any reason for this?

Thank you,
Andrey

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Re: [sage-devel] quotient field

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 06:44:01AM -0700, mhs wrote:
> Hi SAGE developers,
>
> I have a question regarding quotient fields of polynomial rings. I
> want to iterate a polynomial in two variables over a finite field and
> need to mod out higher powers. So I defined a finite field, a
> polynomial ring, a quotient ring and a polynomial in it:
>
> F.<a>=FiniteField(5)
> R.<t>=PolynomialRing(F)
> Q.<t>=R.quotient_ring(R.ideal(t^50))
> p=1+2*t^3+t^5
>
> Now doing p(p) SAGE tells me that p is not callable:

p(p) isn't well defined, because the answer depends on the exact
representatitive of the residue class given by the first p.(*)

This should work though:

F.<a>=FiniteField(5)
R.<t>=PolynomialRing(F)
Q.<s>=R.quotient_ring(R.ideal(t^50))
pR=1+2*t+3*t^2
pQ = Q(pR)
pR(pR(pQ))


(*): For a simple example, consider polynomials in X, take p = 1+X and divide
by the ideal generated by X.

-Willem Jan

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Re: [sage-devel] quotient field

It's just a question of __call__ not being defined.  It should be really easy to fix.  I suggest making a trac ticket and then looking at
sage.rings.polynomial.polynomial_quotient_ring_element and defining __call__ to do function composition.  Make sure you raise a TypeError if the input is an element of the ground ring, because that's usually not defined.
David

On Sun, Oct 31, 2010 at 09:44, mhs <schraudner@math.uni-heidelberg.de> wrote:
Hi SAGE developers,

I have a question regarding quotient fields of polynomial rings. I
want to iterate a polynomial in two variables over a finite field and
need to mod out higher powers. So I defined a finite field, a
polynomial ring, a quotient ring and a polynomial in it:

F.<a>=FiniteField(5)
R.<t>=PolynomialRing(F)
Q.<t>=R.quotient_ring(R.ideal(t^50))
p=1+2*t^3+t^5

Now doing p(p) SAGE tells me that p is not callable:

TypeError: 'QuotientRingElement' object is not callable

If I define p in the polynomial ring however it works fine and I could
mod out the t^50 ideal later on doing p(p(p)).mod(t^50).
The problem is that for large moduli it is quiet slow first producing
the iterate and then moding out a lot of terms, especially if the
polynomial has a larger degree or has two variables. Doing the
calculations in the quotient ring should only produce the needed terms
and calculations should be faster, right?

Is there a method to iterate a polynomial living in the quotient ring?
Why am I getting the not callable message above?

Looking forward to any help.
Best
M.

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[sage-devel] Re: Suggestion new or changed doctests are tested more frequently

On 31 Okt., 11:53, David Kirkby <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote:
> It might be useful if a test could be marked in some way with the
> release it was last changed in. Then add a target to the makefile
> which tests all new or changed  tests 1000 times, but does not test
> the old tests.

Feel free to write a script (or program) that does this.

If you've finished that, extend it to deduce if code a doctest uses /
depends on has changed, then if a system component that's used might
have changed (OS, libraries, hardware) and so on...


-Leif


P.S.: To start with, 'hg annotate ...' shows:

7099: def gen_ajtai(int d, float alpha):
10711: r"""
10711: Return Ajtai-like $(d x d)$-matrix of floating point
parameter
10711: $\alpha$. The matrix is lower-triangular, $B_{imi}$ is
10711: $~2^{(d-i+1)^\alpha}$ and $B_{i,j}$ is $~B_{j,j}/2$ for $j<i
$q.
7099:
7099: INPUT:
7099: d -- dimension
7099: alpha -- see above
10711:
14968: EXAMPLE::
14968:
10711: sage: from sage.libs.fplll.fplll import gen_ajtai
12223: sage: A = gen_ajtai(10, 0.7); A # random output
10711: [117 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]
10711: [ 11 55 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]
12223: [-47 21 104 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]
12223: [ -3 -22 -16 95 0 0 0 0 0 0]
12223: [ -8 -21 -3 -28 55 0 0 0 0 0]
12223: [-33 -15 -30 37 8 52 0 0 0 0]
12223: [-35 21 41 -31 -23 10 21 0 0 0]
12223: [ -9 20 -34 -23 -18 -13 -9 63 0 0]
12223: [-11 14 -38 -16 -26 -23 -3 11 9 0]
12223: [ 15 21 35 37 12 6 -2 10 1 17]
12223:
14968: sage: L = A.LLL(); L # random output
10711: [ 4 7 -3 21 -14 -17 -1 -1 -8 17]
10711: [-20 0 -6 6 -11 -4 -19 10 1 17]
10711: [-22 -1 8 -21 18 -29 3 11 9 0]
10711: [ 31 8 20 2 -12 -4 -27 -22 -18 0]
10711: [ -2 6 -4 7 -8 -10 6 52 -9 0]
10711: [ 3 -7 35 -12 -29 23 3 11 9 0]
10711: [-16 -6 -16 37 2 11 -1 -9 7 -34]
10711: [ 11 55 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0]
10711: [ 11 14 38 16 26 23 3 11 9 0]
10711: [ 13 -28 -1 7 -11 11 -12 3 54 0]
10712: sage: L.is_LLL_reduced()
10712: True
10712: sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
10712: True

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[sage-devel] quotient field

Hi SAGE developers,

I have a question regarding quotient fields of polynomial rings. I
want to iterate a polynomial in two variables over a finite field and
need to mod out higher powers. So I defined a finite field, a
polynomial ring, a quotient ring and a polynomial in it:

F.<a>=FiniteField(5)
R.<t>=PolynomialRing(F)
Q.<t>=R.quotient_ring(R.ideal(t^50))
p=1+2*t^3+t^5

Now doing p(p) SAGE tells me that p is not callable:

TypeError: 'QuotientRingElement' object is not callable

If I define p in the polynomial ring however it works fine and I could
mod out the t^50 ideal later on doing p(p(p)).mod(t^50).
The problem is that for large moduli it is quiet slow first producing
the iterate and then moding out a lot of terms, especially if the
polynomial has a larger degree or has two variables. Doing the
calculations in the quotient ring should only produce the needed terms
and calculations should be faster, right?

Is there a method to iterate a polynomial living in the quotient ring?
Why am I getting the not callable message above?

Looking forward to any help.
Best
M.

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 10/31/2010 01:18:52 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 31 October 2010 01:25, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I guess I don't really understand what this is all about. But I
> > suppose that the major factor is that I simply wouldn't be available
> > more than once in a while to perform whatever these administration
> > tasks might be. That doesn't seem to factor in to the whole
> > 24x7 idea.
> >
> > How much does it help if I simply take release candidates when
> > they are made available, try to build them, and post the logs
> > somewhere. Is that worth doing, or is it basically too late
> > at that point?
> >
> > -Mike
>
> Mike, you are confusing two issues.
>
> 1) If you want your own personal computer to be used as a buildbot
> slave, it really needs to be on 24/7.
>
> 2) If you set up and maintained a virtual machine on boxen.math, then
> the virtual machine would running 24/7, as boxen.math runs 24/7. That
> however would require occasional maintenance from the administrator of
> that virtual machine. You would probably need to clear out old builds
> manually, check log files for errors etc, apply security updates etc
> etc. That does not need you to be a system admin that is available
> 24/7 - only that the virtual machine is maintained such that it can
> run 24/7.

I don't think I'm up to getting involved with the buildbot thing.

But I would like to know how much value there is in simply building
release candidates on my own machine (when I can) and then making the
resulting log files available. Would anyone be interested in seeing
these logs? Or would I just be wasting my time, and bandwidth on
the sage-release group?

-Mike


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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Output format for find_fit and solve

On 30 October 2010 23:47, Jason Grout <jason-sage@creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 10/30/10 10:20 AM, Oscar Lazo wrote:
>>
>
>> Making solution_dict the default seems apropiate for find_fit and
>> solve. I still would prefer a symbolic result for find_fit though (at
>> least an option to get that). Usually when one fits some data to a
>> model what one is trying to do is to interpolate data in between the
>> current data (plot the fitted function etc). Mathematica uses this two
>> outputs in two different functions:
>>
>> For Fit they use a symbolic output:
>> http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/Fit.html
>>
>> For FindFit they use something that looks like a dictionary:
>> http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/FindFit.html
>
>
> I think that having two functions sounds like a great approach.
>
> Jason

Wolfram Research do the same with integration.

Integrate[] symbolic
NIntegrate[] - numeric

N[ Integrate[] ] - Numerical approximation to a symbolic answer.
Integrate[] //N - another way of writing the above

The same for finding roots.

http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/FindRoot.html (numerical)
http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/Root.html (symbolic)

There are undoubtedly other examples too. Mathematica uses different
functions for numerical and symbolic work.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Suggestion new or changed doctests are tested more frequently

The problem with devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx got me thinking.

It might be useful if a test could be marked in some way with the
release it was last changed in. Then add a target to the makefile
which tests all new or changed tests 1000 times, but does not test
the old tests. If 50 or so people report doctest results to
sage-devel, currently a new test is only run 50 times. But we could
usefully test all new tests more often, so finding any that fail some
times.

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 10/31/2010 04:52 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 31 October 2010 00:09, David Kirkby <david.kirkby@onetel.net> wrote:
>
>> So far all passes of 1202 runs on OpenSolaris.
>>
>> This is with very latest alpha I managed to find (sage-4.6.1.alpha0).
>> I'll try it with 4.6.rc0 too.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>
> I got a number of failures, though not in the way you do.
>
> On sage-4.6.rc0 I get
>
> 38 failures, 14837 passes, from 14875 tests.
>
> But not a single one failed due to returning the wrong result, but
> instead like this:
>
> Run 442 of 100000
> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
> python: can't open file '/export/home/drkirkby/.sage//tmp/fplll.py':
> [Errno 2] No such file or directory
>
> [0.2 s]
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> The following tests failed:
>
>
> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
> Total time for all tests: 0.2 seconds
>
> Note this is on a local file system (128 bit ZFS). The discs are
> mirrored and there have been zero detected errors in the disks. The
> RAM is error correcting RAM used in a Sun workstation. The RAM is not
> overclocked - in fact, it is run at 1067 MHz not the 1333 MHz it is
> rated at, as the clock rate needs to be reduced if there is more than
> 6 GB in this machine (it has 12 GB RAM).
>
> I've seen the "No such file or directory" issues before, and always
> assumed it was due to parallel doctesting, but now I am not so sure.

I've opened

http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/10195

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 31 October 2010 09:52, David Kirkby <david.kirkby@onetel.net> wrote:

> python: can't open file '/export/home/drkirkby/.sage//tmp/fplll.py':

I just realised why. The doctest is writing to $HOME/.sage. But I was
doctests two versions of Sage (one based on 4.6.rc0, and another based
on sage-4.6.1.alpha0. These were both writing to the same directory,
so in effect it was a result of me testing in parallel.

So whilst I get failures, these can be explained by using the same
directory for temporary files.

So actually I have:

15323 correct results using sage-4.6.rc0
16425 correct results using sage-4.6.1.alpha0
0 incorrect results
69 failures in sage-4.6.1.alpha0 due to "No such file or directory" issues
40 failures in /sage-4.6.rc0 due to "No such file or directory" issues

So basically, there are 31748 and not a single incorrect result. The
only failures are likely to be a result of using the same name for a
temporary file, which happened because I was doctesting in two
directories at the same time.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 31 Okt., 02:00, Mitesh Patel <qed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/30/2010 06:09 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> > On 30 October 2010 23:55, Mitesh Patel <qed...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> "/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
> >>>> ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
> >>>>    sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
> >>>> Expected:
> >>>>    True
> >>>> Got:
> >>>>    False
> >> I get 6 failures out of 1000 runs with 4.6.rc0 on sage.math (64-bit
> >> Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS).
>
> > So far all passes of 1202 runs on OpenSolaris.
>
> > This is with very latest alpha I managed to find (sage-4.6.1.alpha0).
> > I'll try it with 4.6.rc0 too.
>
> I get 5 failures out of 1000 runs with a 32-bit 4.6.rc0 on OS X 10.6
> (bsd.math).

3/1000 failures on Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64 (Core2), Sage 4.6.rc0, first
run.
4/1000 failures on Ubuntu 10.04 x86_64 (Core2), Sage 4.6.rc0, second
run.
3/1000 failures on Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 (Core2), Sage 4.6.rc0, first
run.
2/ 500 failures on Ubuntu 9.04 x86_64 (Core2), Sage 4.6.rc0, second
run.
5/1000 failures on Ubuntu 9.04 x86 (Pentium 4 Prescott), Sage 4.6.rc0.

(Exactly the same as above, line 853, False instead of True.)

P.S.:

#!/usr/bin/env bash

case $# in
1) runs=$1;;
0) runs=1000;;
*) echo "Usage: $0 [num_runs]"
exit 1
esac

num_failed=0
failed_runs=""

for ((r=1;$r<=$runs;r=$r+1))
do
echo "Run $r/$runs:"
./sage -t -long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx
if [ $? -ne 0 ]; then
num_failed=`expr $num_failed + 1`
failed_runs="$failed_runs $r"
fi
done
echo "Failures: $num_failed/$runs"
if [ $num_failed -ne 0 ]; then
echo "Failed runs:$failed_runs"
fi

(One could of course make the file to test an optional parameter,
too, ...) :-)


-Leif

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 31 October 2010 00:09, David Kirkby <david.kirkby@onetel.net> wrote:

> So far all passes of 1202 runs on OpenSolaris.
>
> This is with very latest alpha I managed to find (sage-4.6.1.alpha0).
> I'll try it with 4.6.rc0 too.
>
> Dave
>

I got a number of failures, though not in the way you do.

On sage-4.6.rc0 I get

38 failures, 14837 passes, from 14875 tests.

But not a single one failed due to returning the wrong result, but
instead like this:

Run 442 of 100000
sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
python: can't open file '/export/home/drkirkby/.sage//tmp/fplll.py':
[Errno 2] No such file or directory

[0.2 s]

----------------------------------------------------------------------
The following tests failed:


sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
Total time for all tests: 0.2 seconds

Note this is on a local file system (128 bit ZFS). The discs are
mirrored and there have been zero detected errors in the disks. The
RAM is error correcting RAM used in a Sun workstation. The RAM is not
overclocked - in fact, it is run at 1067 MHz not the 1333 MHz it is
rated at, as the clock rate needs to be reduced if there is more than
6 GB in this machine (it has 12 GB RAM).

I've seen the "No such file or directory" issues before, and always
assumed it was due to parallel doctesting, but now I am not so sure.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Sage in the news

Hi folks,

Sage is mentioned in the following IT article:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/7-programming-languages-the-rise-620

See especially this page:

http://www.infoworld.com/d/developer-world/7-programming-languages-the-rise-620?page=0,2

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 31 October 2010 01:25, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess I don't really understand what this is all about. But I
> suppose that the major factor is that I simply wouldn't be available
> more than once in a while to perform whatever these administration
> tasks might be. That doesn't seem to factor in to the whole
> 24x7 idea.
>
> How much does it help if I simply take release candidates when
> they are made available, try to build them, and post the logs
> somewhere. Is that worth doing, or is it basically too late
> at that point?
>
> -Mike

Mike, you are confusing two issues.

1) If you want your own personal computer to be used as a buildbot
slave, it really needs to be on 24/7.

2) If you set up and maintained a virtual machine on boxen.math, then
the virtual machine would running 24/7, as boxen.math runs 24/7. That
however would require occasional maintenance from the administrator of
that virtual machine. You would probably need to clear out old builds
manually, check log files for errors etc, apply security updates etc
etc. That does not need you to be a system admin that is available
24/7 - only that the virtual machine is maintained such that it can
run 24/7.


Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: 70M .cache/common-lisp

On Oct 30, 11:05 pm, Jan Groenewald <j...@aims.ac.za> wrote:
[...]
> Can sage safely delete older copies before making a new 70M copy?
> I can symlink to local scratch space, not hundreds of stuidents who move
> between machines though.
>
> Can this go in /tmp instead?

See http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/FAQ.html Section 12.4 to
get started.

It should be safe to delete the cache anyway. Possible solutions I see
(I don't know how easy it is to implement any of them. ASDF is a
rather complicated beast but it seems to be the Common Lisp standard
system definition and build tool by now)

- instruct ASDF to *not* build a cache during the building of Maxima
(maxima.a, the maxima binary or maxima.fas). This may be as simple as
adding

export ASDF_OUTPUT_TRANSLATIONS=/:

to the maxima spkg build script.

- Predict which files building maxima is going to produce in the
cache and delete them as part of the build procedure

- Nuke the relevant part of the common lisp cache as part of the make
script:

COMMONLISPCACHE=`sage -ecl -eval "(progn\
(setf *load-verbose* nil) \
(require 'asdf) \
(princ (asdf::resolve-location asdf::*user-cache*)) \
(quit))"`
rm -rf $COMMONLISPCACHE$SAGE-ROOT/spkg/build

or something like that.

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วันเสาร์ที่ 30 ตุลาคม พ.ศ. 2553

[sage-devel] Re: 70M .cache/common-lisp

On 31 Okt., 07:05, Jan Groenewald <j...@aims.ac.za> wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:01:49PM -0700, leif wrote:
> > > masgaj@host-56-150%du -sh .cache/*
> > > 2.7M    .cache/album-art
> > > 1.4M    .cache/banshee-1
> > > 572M    .cache/common-lisp
> > > 8.0K    .cache/gedit
>
> > > so there's half a gigabyte of junk in there (and my quota is only 5G
> > > so it matters that this on now on a local disk!)
>
> > I can beat that: 2.5 GB in ~/.cache/common-lisp ;-)
>
> > (1.9 GB on another machine.)
>
> Can sage safely delete older copies before making a new 70M copy?
> I can symlink to local scratch space, not hundreds of stuidents who move
> between machines though.

What about deleting ~/.cache/common-lisp/* in .logout
(or .login, .profile, .bashrc etc.) ?

You could also mount a ramdisk / tmpfs on that directory.


> Can this go in /tmp instead?
>
> (Interesting, ubuntu 10.04.1 does NOT clear /tmp on reboots as I am used to
> with earlier versions; but at least that is not in their quota)

Being surprised by the opposite behavior is worse... ;-)


-Leif

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: 70M .cache/common-lisp

Hi

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 11:01:49PM -0700, leif wrote:
> > masgaj@host-56-150%du -sh .cache/*
> > 2.7M    .cache/album-art
> > 1.4M    .cache/banshee-1
> > 572M    .cache/common-lisp
> > 8.0K    .cache/gedit
> >
> > so there's half a gigabyte of junk in there (and my quota is only 5G
> > so it matters that this on now on a local disk!)
>
> I can beat that: 2.5 GB in ~/.cache/common-lisp ;-)
>
> (1.9 GB on another machine.)

Can sage safely delete older copies before making a new 70M copy?
I can symlink to local scratch space, not hundreds of stuidents who move
between machines though.

Can this go in /tmp instead?

(Interesting, ubuntu 10.04.1 does NOT clear /tmp on reboots as I am used to
with earlier versions; but at least that is not in their quota)

regards,
Jan

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[sage-devel] Re: 70M .cache/common-lisp

On 29 Okt., 13:13, John Cremona <john.crem...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I have been hit by this too.  For the same reason:  my work desktop
> has a networked (and backed up) home dir with limited space, but the
> local disk has lots of space -- so I make ~/.cache a link to a dir on
> the local disk and stopped getting warnings about my disk quota being
> exceeded.
>
> I'm sure you can delete all those files, but it is more convenient not
> to have to remeber to do so.
>
> masgaj@host-56-150%df .cache
> Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda4             124G   42G   76G  36% /local
>
> masgaj@host-56-150%du -sh .cache/*
> 2.7M    .cache/album-art
> 1.4M    .cache/banshee-1
> 572M    .cache/common-lisp
> 8.0K    .cache/gedit
>
> so there's half a gigabyte of junk in there (and my quota is only 5G
> so it matters that this on now on a local disk!)

I can beat that: 2.5 GB in ~/.cache/common-lisp ;-)

(1.9 GB on another machine.)


-Leif

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[sage-devel] Re: Oh I wish Sage respected CC and CXX

On 29 Okt., 06:37, Peter Jeremy <peterjer...@acm.org> wrote:
> On 2010-Oct-28 02:31:19 -0700, Volker Braun <vbraun.n...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Making every 3rd party author adhere to the standard usage of CC/CXX
> >is a bit like herding cats. It would be the cleanest fix to patch all
> >the different build systems, sure. But wouldn't it be easier if Sage
> >would set up its own gcc wrapper in $SAGE_LOCAL/bin? The first step of
> >the Sage build process would then be to determine which architecture
> >and compiler one wants to use set up the wrapper accordingly. Then you
> >needn't have every spkg kludge around OSX 64bit brokenness, make sure
> >that it calls the right linker on Solaris, ...
>
> For the FreeBSD port, I just create symlinks for g++, gcc, gfortran
> and make in $SAGE_LOCAL/bin - I felt this was the easiest way out of
> the hard-wired name morass.

Simple, but hopefully won't be necessary in the (near?) future... ;-)

The use of CFLAGS, CPPFLAGS and CXXFLAGS etc. (FC, F77, FFLAGS,
LDFLAGS) is another issue...


> (The 'make' symlink is needed because
> 'make' on *BSD is pmake, not GNU make - which is installed as gmake).

I much more hate this one; tons of scripts ignore a user might want to
set MAKE to something else than "make" (or "make -jN"); partially
MAKEFLAGS are *cleared* to "fully disable" parallel makes, which
doesn't work for e.g. MAKE="make -j" (like setting MAKE="make" doesn't
without modifying MAKEFLAGS).

I'd really like to use "-n", "-i", "-k" etc., too, but the above
scheme totally ignores one might want that. (I see no reason for
having to set "SAGE_PARALLEL_SPKG_BUILD=yes" either; if one doesn't,
MAKE will be [re]set to "make".)

Like for other things duplicated in many spkg-install scripts, it
would perhaps be best to provide functions to dis- and enable parallel
makes in e.g. sage-env, or another file to be sourced. (Also, Sage's
configure could do more, like e.g. defining EGREP, setting GREP to a
POSIX-conformant one, etc.)

For the "hard-coded CC in Makefile" issue, one could at least *try* to
use "${MAKE} -e" (which gives environment settings precedence over
definitions (with "=") in the Makefile, without having to modify /
patch it), though this might cause other weird side-effects unless one
also carefully unsets variables whose values assigned in the Makefile
should not get overridden. Running ${MAKE} CC="${CC}" ... is perhaps a
safer way to achieve the same.

> That just leaves problems with people assuming /bin/sh is bash (last
> I checked, there were still a few of these).

Please open (a) ticket(s) for these; we've meanwhile removed many I
think...


-Leif

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[sage-devel] Re: Can people try this readline package please

On 28 Okt., 09:31, luisfe <lftab...@yahoo.es> wrote:
> Just a newby question about spkgs. sage already has readline. If I do
>
> ./sage -fhttp://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/patches/readline-6.1.spkg
>
> Will it replace the existing readline or will it make a parallel
> installation?

Good question.

*Currently*, doing just "./sage -f ..." will only install the new
readline library and its headers, but *not* rebuild any package that
depends on (i.e. uses) libreadline, so in general - but depending on
the version numbers (see below) - some parts of Sage might still use
the old library.

Also, running "make build" afterwards won't rebuild dependent
packages, but instead report "package xyz is already installed" for
every package that /should/ in principle get rebuilt.

For upgrades of Sage, we've now fixed that in Sage 4.6.rc0, such that
you could now do:

$ cp /path/to/readline-6.1.spkg spkg/standard/ # assuming you're in
SAGE_ROOT
$ export SAGE_UPGRADING=yes
$ make build

which really rebuilds all dependent packages, so all parts of Sage
will use the new library.

(The old spkg is usually kept in spkg/standard/, and not all packages
delete libraries of previous versions, so there might in fact remain
old, unused libraries in local/lib/ if the new ones happen to have
different filenames.)

The above, yet undocumented procedure works just as a "side-effect" or
by-product; we'll most probably make further changes to the build /
package installation process.


In the concrete case, on Linux the (dynamically linked) libraries and
executables using libreadline don't have the full version number (6.0
or 6.1) recorded, but only that they need a libreadline.so.6, so the
new (6.1) version will be used without recompilation of the programs /
libraries using libreadline. (libreadline.so and libreadline.so.6 are
symbolic links to the most recent version, e.g. libreadline.so.6.0 or,
after installation of the readline-6.1 spkg, libreadline.so.6.1. You
can verify that by "ls -l local/lib/libreadline*"; the static library
libreadline.a will always be replaced with the latest one.)


-Leif

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[sage-devel] Re: Is it *really* necessary for everyone to download fortran.spkg ?

On 28 Okt., 03:52, kcrisman <kcris...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > The Sage packages that directly depend on Fortran are:  R, f2c,
> > lapack, blas, numpy, scipy, cvxopt:
>
> > Note that numpy can be built and used *without* fortran, e.g., when I
> > removed fortran from psage I kept numpy...
>
> So a non-Fortran Sage would lose a lot of numerical ability (mpmath
> would stay, but it looks like GSL depends on blas/atlas/something with
> Fortran)

GSL needs /some/ BLAS implementation, and (therefore) comes with
CBLAS, a C implementation of BLAS (which might of course be inferior
to other implementations).


-Leif

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

I experimented with using Amazon's cloud for (Axiom) builds.
It is trivially easy to set up custom images that can be
used for builds. It is also very cheap for an hour of CPU.
So consider setting up a cloud buildbot.

Tim Daly

On 10/30/2010 1:30 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 30 October 2010 07:17, Mike Witt<msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Oct 29, 6:48 pm, Mike Witt<msg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I don't suppose there's a way I can initiate the "buildbot"
>>> from my end and have the results go to the right place?
>>>
>>> Once I get time to install Fedora 14, I imagine I could at least
>>> make that system available. I suppose that I should try to
>>> understand how the "buildbot" scheme works. Is there one place
>>> you can point me to that describes it pretty well? If so, I
>>> could probably find an hour or two Saturday or Sunday to see
>>> if I can understand its workings and then give you a
>>> more coherent answer.
>> OK, well I did find the documentation on buildbot.net, and if
>> I'm understanding correctly from my brief scan of some of
>> the manual it appears that the communication is initiated
>> from the build slaves. So, I think that means that my
>> machines could be used. So I have two questions:
>>
>> (1) Do the machines have to be available all the time, or
>> can they just be available some of the time.
>>
>> (2) Would someone be willing set this up for me (or at least
>> provide an example "configuration" that works for sage
>> builds on some linux type box) or will I have
>> to *actually* study the buildbot manual until I can figure out
>> how to do that myself.
>>
>> -Mike
> It's not practical unless the machine runs 24 hours per day, 7 days
> per week. The release manager can currently click a button on a GUI
> and start the build on all the slaves when he wants to. That's just
> not going to be practical with your setup.
>
> There is a plan to use Virtual machines on Boxen as build slaves soon.
> Perhaps you could manage one of those running Fedora 14. That machine
> would then stay on 24/7.
>
> Dave
>

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 10/30/2010 06:09 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 30 October 2010 23:55, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 10/30/2010 05:35 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
>>> On 30 October 2010 23:14, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I ran
>>>>
>>>> ./sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>>>>
>>>> 1000 times in serial [1] with a 64-bit 4.6.rc0 built on OS X 10.6
>>>> (bsd.math). All but one of the runs pass. The failure:
>>>>
>>>> Run 766 of 1000
>>>> Detected SAGE64 flag
>>>> Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
>>>> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>>>> **********************************************************************
>>>> File
>>>> "/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
>>>> ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
>>>> sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
>>>> Expected:
>>>> True
>>>> Got:
>>>> False
>>>>
>>>> Questions:
>>>>
>>>> * Is this known?
>>>> * Why might the error occur on occasion?
>>>> * Does anyone see this on other platforms?
>>>
>>> When I doctested Sage 100 times some months back there were several
>>> failures, but this was not one of them.
>>>
>>> I've just started a script on 'hawk' So far its been run 332 times
>>> with no failures. It is taking 2.2s/test, so I'll let you know if
>>> there is a failure, or if I get to 10,000 without a failure.
>>
>> I get 6 failures out of 1000 runs with 4.6.rc0 on sage.math (64-bit
>> Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS).
>
> So far all passes of 1202 runs on OpenSolaris.
>
> This is with very latest alpha I managed to find (sage-4.6.1.alpha0).
> I'll try it with 4.6.rc0 too.

I get 5 failures out of 1000 runs with a 32-bit 4.6.rc0 on OS X 10.6
(bsd.math).

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Re: [sage-devel] Supported platforms - once again

On 10/27/2010 08:26 PM, Mitesh Patel wrote:
> On 10/27/2010 08:43 AM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
>> 1) Despite previously claiming in README.txt that we supported Fedora
>> 32-bit on x86, the only host with Fedora 32-bit,
>>
>> http://build.sagemath.org/sage/buildslaves/cicero-1
>>
>> has never had a successful build and test.
>>
>> 2) Despite previously claiming we supported Fedora 64-bit on x86, the
>> only Opteron machine
>>
>> http://build.sagemath.org/sage/buildslaves/flavius-1
>>
>> has never had a successful build+test. Perhaps there's an Opteron
>> specific bug here.
>
> I've already posted to the (non-public) sage-skynet mailing list about the
> reproducible doctest errors on [several of] the Skynet Fedora 13 machines.
> The errors all appear to stem from building on an NFS filesystem, on
> which SQLite may be unable to lock the graph database graphs.db.

I've worked around this by copying graphs.db to /tmp and symlinking the
copy to SAGE_ROOT/data/graphs/graphs.db.

I've also used

DOT_SAGE=`mktemp -d /tmp/dot_sage.XXXXXXXXXX`

to avoid similar errors in database.py, whose doctests make databases
under tmp_dir()s.

I don't think mktemp is a POSIX command, but it seems to be widespread:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2792675/how-portable-is-mktemp1

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 10/30/2010 02:18:19 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 30 October 2010 19:02, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 10/30/2010 10:30:07 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
>
> >> There is a plan to use Virtual machines on Boxen as build slaves
> soon.
> >> Perhaps you could manage one of those running Fedora 14. That
> machine
> >> would then stay on 24/7.
> >
> > I'm not sure what that means, but I'm open to any way
> > that I might help (given that my meager abilities and time
> > available will allow it :-)
> >
> > -Mike
>
> VirtualBox
>
> http://www.virtualbox.org/
>
> is a program that allows you to run different operating systems on the
> same machine at the same time. This is totally different from
> dual-booting a computer, where only one operating system can be
> running at any one time.
>
> Here's a screen shot on my computer
>
> http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/Virtual-box.png
>
>
> The main operating system is OpenSolaris, but you can see some version
> lf Linux in the top left, Windows XP in the middle, and Solaris 10 on
> the right. Since I assume you have Fedora 14, you could download
> VirtualBox, download the ISO images for Fedora 12, then run Fedora 12
> as a guest operating system. So you have Fedora 12 and Fedora 14
> running at the same time. You can run many different operating
> systems. I've run 6 at the same time, but running 100 would be
> possible on a sufficiently powerful computer.
>
> Those guest operating systems can be made available on the internet,
> and so can be used as buildbot slaves. The machine boxen.math has
> several virtual machines on it. Potentially one could have Fedora 14
> on it, and someone administer it.
>
> If you have never used VirtualBox, you should give it a try. It is
> quite impressive. Getting an operating system installed and working is
> very easy - configuring things properly, for non-trivial uses is
> certainly not so easy.
>
> Dave

I guess I don't really understand what this is all about. But I
suppose that the major factor is that I simply wouldn't be available
more than once in a while to perform whatever these administration
tasks might be. That doesn't seem to factor in to the whole
24x7 idea.

How much does it help if I simply take release candidates when
they are made available, try to build them, and post the logs
somewhere. Is that worth doing, or is it basically too late
at that point?

-Mike

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 30 October 2010 23:55, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/30/2010 05:35 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
>> On 30 October 2010 23:14, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I ran
>>>
>>> ./sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>>>
>>> 1000 times in serial [1] with a 64-bit 4.6.rc0 built on OS X 10.6
>>> (bsd.math).  All but one of the runs pass.  The failure:
>>>
>>> Run 766 of 1000
>>> Detected SAGE64 flag
>>> Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
>>> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>>> **********************************************************************
>>> File
>>> "/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
>>> ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
>>>    sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
>>> Expected:
>>>    True
>>> Got:
>>>    False
>>>
>>> Questions:
>>>
>>>  * Is this known?
>>>  * Why might the error occur on occasion?
>>>  * Does anyone see this on other platforms?
>>
>> When I doctested Sage 100 times some months back there were several
>> failures, but this was not one of them.
>>
>> I've just started a script on 'hawk' So far its been run 332 times
>> with no failures. It is taking 2.2s/test, so I'll let you know if
>> there is a failure, or if I get to 10,000 without a failure.
>
> I get 6 failures out of 1000 runs with 4.6.rc0 on sage.math (64-bit
> Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS).

So far all passes of 1202 runs on OpenSolaris.

This is with very latest alpha I managed to find (sage-4.6.1.alpha0).
I'll try it with 4.6.rc0 too.

Dave

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 10/30/2010 05:35 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 30 October 2010 23:14, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I ran
>>
>> ./sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>>
>> 1000 times in serial [1] with a 64-bit 4.6.rc0 built on OS X 10.6
>> (bsd.math). All but one of the runs pass. The failure:
>>
>> Run 766 of 1000
>> Detected SAGE64 flag
>> Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
>> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>> **********************************************************************
>> File
>> "/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
>> ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
>> sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
>> Expected:
>> True
>> Got:
>> False
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> * Is this known?
>> * Why might the error occur on occasion?
>> * Does anyone see this on other platforms?
>
> When I doctested Sage 100 times some months back there were several
> failures, but this was not one of them.
>
> I've just started a script on 'hawk' So far its been run 332 times
> with no failures. It is taking 2.2s/test, so I'll let you know if
> there is a failure, or if I get to 10,000 without a failure.

I get 6 failures out of 1000 runs with 4.6.rc0 on sage.math (64-bit
Ubuntu 8.04.4 LTS).

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[sage-devel] Re: Output format for find_fit and solve

On 10/30/10 10:20 AM, Oscar Lazo wrote:
>

> Making solution_dict the default seems apropiate for find_fit and
> solve. I still would prefer a symbolic result for find_fit though (at
> least an option to get that). Usually when one fits some data to a
> model what one is trying to do is to interpolate data in between the
> current data (plot the fitted function etc). Mathematica uses this two
> outputs in two different functions:
>
> For Fit they use a symbolic output: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/Fit.html
>
> For FindFit they use something that looks like a dictionary:
> http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/FindFit.html


I think that having two functions sounds like a great approach.

Jason

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Re: [sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

On 30 October 2010 23:14, Mitesh Patel <qed777@gmail.com> wrote:
> I ran
>
> ./sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
>
> 1000 times in serial [1] with a 64-bit 4.6.rc0 built on OS X 10.6
> (bsd.math).  All but one of the runs pass.  The failure:
>
> Run 766 of 1000
> Detected SAGE64 flag
> Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
> sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
> **********************************************************************
> File
> "/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
> ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
>    sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
> Expected:
>    True
> Got:
>    False
>
> Questions:
>
>  * Is this known?
>  * Why might the error occur on occasion?
>  * Does anyone see this on other platforms?

When I doctested Sage 100 times some months back there were several
failures, but this was not one of them.

I've just started a script on 'hawk' So far its been run 332 times
with no failures. It is taking 2.2s/test, so I'll let you know if
there is a failure, or if I get to 10,000 without a failure.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Occasional doctest failure in libs/fplll/fplll.pyx with 4.6.rc0

I ran

./sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"

1000 times in serial [1] with a 64-bit 4.6.rc0 built on OS X 10.6
(bsd.math). All but one of the runs pass. The failure:

Run 766 of 1000
Detected SAGE64 flag
Building Sage on OS X in 64-bit mode
sage -t -long -force_lib "devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx"
**********************************************************************
File
"/Users/buildbot/build/sage/bsd-2/bsd_64_full/build/sage-4.6.0pre0/devel/sa
ge/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx", line 853:
sage: L.echelon_form() == A.echelon_form()
Expected:
True
Got:
False

Questions:

* Is this known?
* Why might the error occur on occasion?
* Does anyone see this on other platforms?

[1] Here's the script I used

#!/bin/bash

RUNS=1000
#for I in `seq $RUNS` # use this for non-Macs
for I in `jot $RUNS` # use for Macs
do
echo Run $I of $RUNS
./sage -t -long -force_lib devel/sage/sage/libs/fplll/fplll.pyx
done

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Is some idiot attaching junk to the Wiki?

On 28 October 2010 11:49, Volker Braun <vbraun.name@gmail.com> wrote:
> Spammers.. Evidently the wiki captcha is not difficult enough ;-)

There may be anti-spam tools for MoinMoin - I know there is if Trac
was used as a Wiki

http://trac.edgewall.org/wiki/TracWiki

dave

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 30 October 2010 19:02, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/30/2010 10:30:07 AM, David Kirkby wrote:

>> There is a plan to use Virtual machines on Boxen as build slaves soon.
>> Perhaps you could manage one of those running Fedora 14. That machine
>> would then stay on 24/7.
>
> I'm not sure what that means, but I'm open to any way
> that I might help (given that my meager abilities and time
> available will allow it :-)
>
> -Mike

VirtualBox

http://www.virtualbox.org/

is a program that allows you to run different operating systems on the
same machine at the same time. This is totally different from
dual-booting a computer, where only one operating system can be
running at any one time.

Here's a screen shot on my computer

http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/kirkby/Virtual-box.png


The main operating system is OpenSolaris, but you can see some version
lf Linux in the top left, Windows XP in the middle, and Solaris 10 on
the right. Since I assume you have Fedora 14, you could download
VirtualBox, download the ISO images for Fedora 12, then run Fedora 12
as a guest operating system. So you have Fedora 12 and Fedora 14
running at the same time. You can run many different operating
systems. I've run 6 at the same time, but running 100 would be
possible on a sufficiently powerful computer.

Those guest operating systems can be made available on the internet,
and so can be used as buildbot slaves. The machine boxen.math has
several virtual machines on it. Potentially one could have Fedora 14
on it, and someone administer it.

If you have never used VirtualBox, you should give it a try. It is
quite impressive. Getting an operating system installed and working is
very easy - configuring things properly, for non-trivial uses is
certainly not so easy.

Dave

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Re: [sage-devel] CouchDB

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 12:13 AM, Thierry Dumont
<tdumont@math.univ-lyon1.fr> wrote:
> I am reading  an interesting paper (at least interesting for me) about
> CouchDB. I do not know many things about databases, but I remember that
> there where some ideas about using a data base for the storages of the
> notebook.
> At first look, I would say that these sorts of databases (not sql) seem well
> fitted for that... Am I completely wrong ?

I'm planning to add support to the Sage notebook for MongoDB.
http://www.mongodb.org/


>
> Yours
> t.d.
>
> --
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>

--
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Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://wstein.org

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Request to review Sagemath Beginners Guide

Hi!

On 30 Okt., 03:22, William Stein <wst...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Sage-Devel,
>
> I'm curious if people are getting emails like this...

Yes, I got such email.

Cheers,
Simon

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 10/30/2010 10:30:07 AM, David Kirkby wrote:
> On 30 October 2010 07:17, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Oct 29, 6:48 pm, Mike Witt <msg...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I don't suppose there's a way I can initiate the "buildbot"
> >> from my end and have the results go to the right place?
> >>
> >> Once I get time to install Fedora 14, I imagine I could at least
> >> make that system available. I suppose that I should try to
> >> understand how the "buildbot" scheme works. Is there one place
> >> you can point me to that describes it pretty well?  If so, I
> >> could probably find an hour or two Saturday or Sunday to see
> >> if I can understand its workings and then give you a
> >> more coherent answer.
> >
> > OK, well I did find the documentation on buildbot.net, and if
> > I'm understanding correctly from my brief scan of some of
> > the manual it appears that the communication is initiated
> > from the build slaves. So, I think that means that my
> > machines could be used. So I have two questions:
> >
> > (1) Do the machines have to be available all the time, or
> > can they just be available some of the time.
> >
> > (2) Would someone be willing set this up for me (or at least
> > provide an example "configuration" that works for sage
> > builds on some linux type box) or will I have
> > to *actually* study the buildbot manual until I can figure out
> > how to do that myself.
> >
> > -Mike
>
> It's not practical unless the machine runs 24 hours per day, 7 days
> per week. The release manager can currently click a button on a GUI
> and start the build on all the slaves when he wants to. That's just
> not going to be practical with your setup.

OK, that's too bad.

> There is a plan to use Virtual machines on Boxen as build slaves soon.
> Perhaps you could manage one of those running Fedora 14. That machine
> would then stay on 24/7.

I'm not sure what that means, but I'm open to any way
that I might help (given that my meager abilities and time
available will allow it :-)

-Mike

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL / Maxima / Fedora 14 issues.

On 30 October 2010 07:17, Mike Witt <msg2mw@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Oct 29, 6:48 pm, Mike Witt <msg...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I don't suppose there's a way I can initiate the "buildbot"
>> from my end and have the results go to the right place?
>>
>> Once I get time to install Fedora 14, I imagine I could at least
>> make that system available. I suppose that I should try to
>> understand how the "buildbot" scheme works. Is there one place
>> you can point me to that describes it pretty well?  If so, I
>> could probably find an hour or two Saturday or Sunday to see
>> if I can understand its workings and then give you a
>> more coherent answer.
>
> OK, well I did find the documentation on buildbot.net, and if
> I'm understanding correctly from my brief scan of some of
> the manual it appears that the communication is initiated
> from the build slaves. So, I think that means that my
> machines could be used. So I have two questions:
>
> (1) Do the machines have to be available all the time, or
> can they just be available some of the time.
>
> (2) Would someone be willing set this up for me (or at least
> provide an example "configuration" that works for sage
> builds on some linux type box) or will I have
> to *actually* study the buildbot manual until I can figure out
> how to do that myself.
>
> -Mike

It's not practical unless the machine runs 24 hours per day, 7 days
per week. The release manager can currently click a button on a GUI
and start the build on all the slaves when he wants to. That's just
not going to be practical with your setup.

There is a plan to use Virtual machines on Boxen as build slaves soon.
Perhaps you could manage one of those running Fedora 14. That machine
would then stay on 24/7.

Dave

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[sage-devel] Re: Output format for find_fit and solve

On Oct 30, 2:26 am, Jason Grout <jason-s...@creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/10 5:59 PM, Oscar Gerardo Lazo Arjona wrote:
>
>
>
> > I want to propose the following changes to the output format of find_fit
> > and solve:
>
> > for find_fit the current output format is a list of equations:
>
> > sage: data = [(i, 1.2 * sin(0.5*i-0.2) + 0.1 * normalvariate(0, 1)) for
> > i in xsrange(0, 4*pi, 0.2)]
> > sage: var('a, b, c, x')
> > sage: model(x) = a * sin(b * x - c)
> > sage: find_fit(data, model)
>
> > [a == 1.2204167610363676, b == 0.50171964598627838, c
> > ==0.22401763827376933]
>
> > or a dictionary:
>
> > sage: find_fit(data,model,solution_dict=True)
>
> > {c: 0.22401763827376933, b: 0.50171964598627838, a: 1.2204167610363676}
>
> > I'd like to get an expression where the values found for the parameters
> > are put in the model given to find_fit:
>
> > sage: find_fit(data, model)
> > 1.2204167610363676*sin(0.50171964598627838 *x -0.22401763827376933 )
>
> Why not make solution_dict=True the default, since then you could say:
>
> fit=find_fit(data,model)
> model.subs(fit)
>
> to get the model with those parameters?
>
> In fact, it would be great if this worked too:
>
> fit=find_fit(data,model)
> model(**fit)
>
> but (even if solution_dict=True is the default) that complains that the
> keys in the dictionary are not strings.
>
> However, we could make this work:
>
> fit=find_fit(data,model)
> model(fit)
>
> but it require changes to the __call__ method to allow a dictionary
> input that would do the same as .subs() would do if handed a dictionary.
>
>
>
>
>
> > For solve the current output format depends on the input:
>
> > sage: var('x y')
> > sage: eq1=x+4==0
> > sage: eq2=x^2+4*x+2==0
> > sage: sys1=x+y==1
> > sage: sys2=x-2*y==-2
> > sage: solve(eq1,x)
> > [x == -4]
> > A list containing solutions (even when there is only one solution).
>
> > sage: solve(eq2,x)
> > [x == -sqrt(2) - 2, x == sqrt(2) - 2]
> > A list containing solutions when there is more than one solution
>
> > solve([sys1,sys2],x,y)
> > [[x == 0, y == 1]]
> > A list containing a list containing solutions (this is the worst)
>
> > The format I would like to see is:
>
> > sage: solve(eq1,x)
> > x == -4
> > A single equation
>
> > sage: solve(eq2,x)
> > [x == -sqrt(2) - 2, x == sqrt(2) - 2]
> > This one is fine
>
> > solve([sys1,sys2],x,y)
> > [x == 0, y == 1]
> > Just a list of solutions. It is harder to work with the solutions if
> > they are inside another list.
>
> What if there are two different solutions, like (x=0, y=0) and (x=0,y=1)?
>
> Personally, I think returning an equation is okay for situations where I
> am just checking something, and don't plan on using the solution again.
>   Returning a list of equations is horrible for actually doing anything
> with the results, which is my intent in the vast majority of situations.
>   Having to always append the not-very-obvious "solution_dict=True" to
> use solve in the common case is not very user-friendly.  If we're
> changing the output of solve, I'd propose returning either a single
> dictionary (a single solution) or a list of dictionaries (multiple
> solutions).  Solve seems like it would be much more useful that way.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason

Making solution_dict the default seems apropiate for find_fit and
solve. I still would prefer a symbolic result for find_fit though (at
least an option to get that). Usually when one fits some data to a
model what one is trying to do is to interpolate data in between the
current data (plot the fitted function etc). Mathematica uses this two
outputs in two different functions:

For Fit they use a symbolic output: http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/Fit.html

For FindFit they use something that looks like a dictionary:
http://reference.wolfram.com/mathematica/ref/FindFit.html

As for solve, I agree, we should return a single dictionary when
there's just one solution and a list of dictionaries when there's more
than one solution.

thanks!

Oscar

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Request to review Sagemath Beginners Guide

begin:vcard
fn:Thierry Dumont
n:Dumont;Thierry
org;quoted-printable;quoted-printable:Universit=C3=A9 Lyon 1 & CNRS.;Institut Camille Jordan -- Math=C3=A9matiques / Mathematics.
adr:;;43 Bd du 11 Novembre 1918;Villeurbanne;;69621;France
email;internet:tdumont@math.univ-lyon1.fr
tel;work:04 72 44 85 23.
tel;fax:04 72 44 80 53
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:http://math.univ-lyon1.fr/~tdumont
version:2.1
end:vcard

Le 30/10/2010 16:21, mhampton a écrit :
> Rob,
>
> It would be great to have an English version of that book, I agree
> that its very good. I would be willing to pitch in a bit to a team
> translation effort. My French is not good but I think I could slog
> through part of it - other people in my family might check my work if
> I can talk them into it (e.g. my sister teaches French).
>
I do not speak a good English, but as we write quite all our papers in
(bad) English, we can help.
> -Marshall
>

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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Request to review Sagemath Beginners Guide

Rob,

It would be great to have an English version of that book, I agree
that its very good. I would be willing to pitch in a bit to a team
translation effort. My French is not good but I think I could slog
through part of it - other people in my family might check my work if
I can talk them into it (e.g. my sister teaches French).

-Marshall

On Oct 30, 5:39 am, Rob Beezer <goo...@beezer.cotse.net> wrote:
>  > There's already a nice CC-licensed book about Sage written in
> French:
>
>
>
> >    http://sagebook.gforge.inria.fr/
>
> > Are there any plans to make a print version and/or translations?
>
> I have "translated" the French Sage book into Sage worksheets.  This
> was all very experimental and a bit "quick and dirty" in places (ie I
> probably introduced some errors).  Out of respect for the original
> authors' work I have not distributed this version widely.  But I do
> intend to return to the project and do the format conversion properly,
> and with more input and involvement from the authors.
>
> But having spent four or five days with the source for the book, and
> with the caveat that my abilities with French are not the greatest, it
> is definitely the best resource out there for a beginner right now
> (IMHO).
>
> If I understand right, Paul Zimmerman organized about 10 authors to
> each write a chapter about using Sage in their specialty.  It is a
> model that could be repeated in any language, or perhaps a translation
> of the French work could be translated by a similar team of
> knowledgeable Sage mathematicians.
>
> Rob

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Request to review Sagemath Beginners Guide

With a few (preferably native English-speaking) people collaborating,
translating the French book would not be at all hard. Paul, would you
be willing to coordinate a little project to do that? We could divide
the book up into sections and get volunteers to work on each section
(one or more each) and the collate the whole.

I would be willing to do some of it.

John

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 1:04 PM, Thierry Dumont
<tdumont@math.univ-lyon1.fr> wrote:
> Le 30/10/2010 12:39, Rob Beezer a écrit :
>>
>>  >  There's already a nice CC-licensed book about Sage written in
>> French:
>>>
>>>    http://sagebook.gforge.inria.fr/
>>>
>>> Are there any plans to make a print version and/or translations?
>>
>> I have "translated" the French Sage book into Sage worksheets.  This
>> was all very experimental and a bit "quick and dirty" in places (ie I
>> probably introduced some errors).  Out of respect for the original
>> authors' work I have not distributed this version widely.  But I do
>> intend to return to the project and do the format conversion properly,
>> and with more input and involvement from the authors.
>>
>> But having spent four or five days with the source for the book, and
>> with the caveat that my abilities with French are not the greatest, it
>> is definitely the best resource out there for a beginner right now
>> (IMHO).
>>
> Thanks (I am one of 10) :-)
>>
>> If I understand right, Paul Zimmerman organized about 10 authors to
>> each write a chapter about using Sage in their specialty.  It is a
>> model that could be repeated in any language, or perhaps a translation
>> of the French work could be translated by a similar team of
>> knowledgeable Sage mathematicians.
>>
> Actually, for the chapter I wrote, programing the examples took a lot of my
> time, may be half of it. I am not sure that translating is very complicated:
> even if you know spanish for example, but not french, with the help of a
> dictionary, it should be possible.
> It tooks us about 5 months to write the book, each author correcting at
> least one other author; ok, it was not a full time job, but.... And we have
> some nice material to help us : a svn server, Makefiles, scripts and so on,
> so that "compiling" the book also tests the examples. I do not know what
> Paul Zimmerman would say, but this material (Makefile, scripts...) should be
> available to any translator.
>
> Yours
> t.d.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>
> --
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[sage-devel] Re: Fwd: Request to review Sagemath Beginners Guide

On Oct 29, 9:08 pm, David Kirkby <david.kir...@onetel.net> wrote:
> I think Sage would gain a bit more creditability if there were books
> on it published from places like Springer or Wiley.
>
> Good luck to anyone that has written a book on Sage.
>
> Dave

David Joyner and I are working on a book for introductory differential
equations that features Sage examples and exercises. I'm not sure its
really a "book on Sage" but it adds to the ecosystem, which I think is
important. The more the merrier. It will be published by Johns
Hopkins University Press - so again, not quite Springer or Wiley but
it can take advantage of traditional distribution channels. I think
it will help the adoption of Sage if we get books involving Sage out
into bookstores.

-Marshall

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Re: [sage-devel] Re: ECL - test suite and spkg-check file

I agree that if self-tests exist then we should enable them (when
SAGE_CHECK=yes).

John

On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 1:03 AM, Dr. David Kirkby
<david.kirkby@onetel.net> wrote:
> On 10/30/10 12:57 AM, Volker Braun wrote:
>>
>> I'm definitely in favor of adding ecl's test suite. Assuming that ecl
>> actually passes its self-tests ;)
>>
>> Volker
>
> Well, even if it does not, this will not stop Sage building, as the test
> suite would only be run when SAGE_CHECK=yes.
>
> It's 1 AM here, so I'm not going to do anything for some hours at least, but
> if others feel like us, then I'll add the test suite to the package, and
> write teh spkg-check file.
>
>
>
> Dave
>
>>
>> On Oct 30, 12:37 am, "Dr. David Kirkby"<david.kir...@onetel.net>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> There's no spkg-check file for ECL, so we can't run ECL's self-tests. In
>>> order
>>> to do this, we would need to add the tests, which are in a sepparate file
>>> (1.7 MB).
>>>
>>> I'd propose that we add
>>>
>>> 1) Add the ECL test code
>>> 2) Add an spkg-check file so ECL's self-tests can run if SAGE_CHECK=yes.
>>>
>>> But of course it would add 1.7 MB to the ECL package.
>>>
>>> There is a ticket to upgrade both Maxima and ECL open now
>>>
>>> http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/8731
>>>
>>> Adding the self-tests into the package would be quite easy. Then we could
>>> run
>>> 'make check' from spkg-install.
>>>
>>> Comments?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>
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